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From Problematic to Fantastic: Stories of Resilience and Redefinition


In this candid interview with SmallTalk TV, Nat Hawley, founder of Divergent Thinking, reflects on a life that refused to follow the script other people had written for him. It is a story that moves from exclusion to opportunity, from being seen as “problematic” to building a career shaped by creativity, purpose and resilience.

But what makes this interview compelling is not just the list of achievements. It is the deeper message underneath them: that being misunderstood early in life does not mean you are destined to stay small. With the right perspective, the right strategies and the right support, what once looked like a limitation can become part of a very different future.



Challenging the “special needs” story

Nat speaks openly about living with dyslexia, dyspraxia and autism, and in doing so challenges one of the oldest and most limiting narratives around neurodivergence: that difference automatically means deficiency.

He makes the simple but powerful point that being neurodivergent means seeing and processing the world differently. Yes, that can create real difficulty in systems that were not designed for your brain. But it does not mean there is something inherently wrong with you.

That distinction matters.

Too often, the phrase “special needs” has been used in ways that flatten people into a category of lack. Nat’s interview pushes back against that. He does not deny the reality of struggle. He simply refuses to let struggle be the whole story.

That same shift sits at the centre of Divergent Thinking: moving beyond deficit-based assumptions and toward a more practical, strengths-aware understanding of neurodivergence.


When school teaches the wrong lesson

Nat describes leaving school at 16 with very few GCSEs and struggling with many of the things traditional education tends to value most: writing, eye contact, neat presentation, conformity and standardised ways of learning.

This part of the interview matters because it highlights how easily educational systems confuse mismatch with failure.

If the system is built around one narrow model of competence, then anyone who learns, communicates or develops differently can quickly be labelled as difficult, lazy or incapable. The label then follows the person, even when it says more about the system than about them.

Nat’s story is a reminder that school outcomes are not always an accurate measure of potential. Sometimes they are simply a measure of who the system was built for.


The power of finding your workaround

One of the most striking moments in the interview is Nat’s story about applying to university using a video CV rather than a traditional written application.

That choice captures something central to his journey: instead of continuing to battle a format that did not bring out his strengths, he found another route. He leaned into storytelling, communication and creativity rather than forcing himself endlessly through the method that most disadvantaged him.

That is a powerful message for neurodivergent people of all ages.

Thriving often begins when someone stops asking, “How do I succeed in the standard way?” and starts asking, “What is the route that actually works for me?”

This is also one of the reasons practical support matters so much in work and education. The goal should not always be to force people through the narrowest gate. Sometimes the smarter move is to widen the gate or find a different entrance altogether.


Storytelling as a turning point

Nat describes storytelling as the pivot that opened up his future.

Once he found a medium that fit how his mind worked, new possibilities appeared. Storytelling led him into university, but it also laid the foundation for later work in community action, youth work, filmmaking and public speaking. What looked like a detour from the mainstream path became the path.

This is an important reminder that strengths do not always reveal themselves in the environments that first judge us. Sometimes people only begin to thrive when they find the medium, context or role that actually matches how they think.

That is why role fit matters so much in adult life too. It is also why workplace needs assessments can be so valuable. They help move the conversation away from “why is this person struggling?” and toward “what conditions would let this person work well?”


Resilience shaped by caregiving

Another powerful thread in the interview is Nat’s experience as a young carer for his mother.

This was not a side note in his life. It shaped his understanding of pressure, responsibility and resilience. While it brought anxiety and disrupted education, it also taught him something deeper about persistence, care and perspective. He speaks about how caregiving, although incredibly hard, helped build an inner resource that would later serve him in other parts of life.

That is a very different way of looking at resilience.

Too often, resilience is presented as a personality trait people either have or lack. Nat’s story makes it clear that resilience is often forged in difficult circumstances and that the same experiences that strain a person can also shape their strength. The key is not romanticising hardship, but recognising what can emerge from surviving it.


Redefining what success really means

One of the most refreshing parts of the interview is how grounded Nat remains when talking about achievement.

Yes, his career includes impressive milestones: filming for major broadcasters, working on huge cultural events, travelling widely and building a portfolio that many people would envy. But when asked what he is most proud of, his answer is not a glamorous job title or a credit on a screen. It is being a good son and caring for the people who matter most.

That changes the tone of the whole story.

It reminds us that success is not only professional. It is also relational. It is about who you become, not just what you accumulate. And for many neurodivergent people who have been measured harshly by conventional standards, that broader definition can be deeply liberating.

Success does not have to look tidy, elite or externally impressive to be meaningful.


The role of perspective

The interview’s deeper message is not just that opportunities exist. It is that perspective changes everything.

The same life can be told in two very different ways:

  • a story of exclusion, failure and not fitting in

  • or a story of adaptation, creativity and possibility

Nat does not erase the hard parts. He does something more useful. He reframes them. He shows that what once looked like evidence of deficiency can, in another light, be understood as the raw material of a different kind of strength.

This is one of the reasons his work resonates so strongly. He does not speak from a distance. He speaks from experience, and that gives his message both honesty and credibility.

It is also why so much of the Divergent Thinking blog focuses on practical reframing: not in a falsely positive way, but in a way that helps people see beyond the labels that once confined them.


From exclusion to self-definition

What this SmallTalk TV interview captures so well is the journey from being defined by other people’s assumptions to defining yourself on your own terms.

That shift is not easy. It rarely happens all at once. It often involves years of misunderstanding, experimentation, pain and persistence. But it matters because it changes the centre of gravity. Instead of trying endlessly to prove you are not the label, you start building a life that makes the label less powerful.

That is what Nat’s journey represents.

Not perfection.

Not linear success.

Not a magical escape from difficulty.

But self-definition.

And that is often what thriving really looks like.


A message for the people who feel written off

For anyone who has ever felt like the “problematic” child, the misfit, the underachiever, the awkward one, the one teachers doubted, the one whose potential was missed — this interview offers something important.

It says: the story may not be over where other people thought it would end.

There may be another route.

Another format.

Another strength.

Another environment in which your brain makes more sense.

Another version of success that fits you better than the one you were first told to chase.

That is not fantasy. Nat Hawley’s life is evidence of it.


Final thought

From Problematic to Fantastic is not just a story of success. It is a story of redefinition.

It is about what happens when someone moves beyond the labels that once limited them and starts building from their real strengths. It is about how survival, caregiving, creativity and different ways of thinking can all shape a life that is richer and more expansive than the early narrative ever allowed for.

Most of all, it is a reminder that being written off early does not mean you were right to be written off. Sometimes it simply means the people around you did not yet know how to see you properly.


To explore more of Nat Hawley’s work, visit Divergent Thinking, read the blog, or learn more about [workplace needs assessments](https://www.divergentthinking.uk/workplace-assess


 
 
 

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